Ask Arok: 1792 and Very Old Barton

Last week, Dan left a comment on the post I did comparing 1792 Port Finish to a 1792 single barrel. 

What is the difference between 1792 and Very Old barton other than packaging? Thanks! 

Initially thought he was asking about flavor. Because I find them to be quite different, I was happy to share that I found 1792 to be hotter, drier and showing more wood influence than VOB. It turns out that his question was much more interesting than that, cutting to the heart of the difference between the juice that goes into the bottle for two brands. Since both of these bourbons are produced at the Barton 1792 Distillery in Bardstown, KY one might assume that they are just the same bourbon put into different bottles.

At one point, this would have been an easy question to answer. Age. Both of these had age statements until just a few years ago. Very Old Barton was 6 years old and 1792 was 8. I assumed that this, along with barrel selection was probably still the case. But the bourbon industry has changed in the mean time. There is much less info on the label than there used to be for these two brands so I couldn't say for sure. To find out, I reached out to a contact I have at Sazerac to see if she would like to chime in. Here is what she had to say.

Age constitutes most of the difference in taste between Very Old Barton and 1792, as 1792 barrels are typically aged 3-4 years longer than Very Old Barton. We also taste, evaluate and approve all the barrels prior to use in any batch to ensure a consistent taste profile for every brand. So in other words, to ensure Very Old Barton always tastes like Very Old Barton and 1792 always tastes like 1792. 

So I was correct in my assumption that it is still age and barrel selection. But I was a bit surprised at one thing. Apparently in the last few years Very Old Barton has gotten younger at a faster pace than 1792 has. They used to be 2 years apart in age. Now they are 3-4 years different. Assuming that they wouldn't remove the 8 year age statement while making the bourbon older, we are left to deduce that Very Old Barton is now only 4-5 years old while 1792 is around 7-8. 

Toss in choosing barrels to fit the flavor profile and you get yourself a different brand that starts the same, but are pretty different when compared to one another. 

Do you have a bourbon question you'd like answered? Just get in contact with me using one of the icons in the sidebar to submit one. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll try to find it from someone who does.


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High West Rendezvous Rye, finished in used bourbon barrels

Funny thing happened to me on the way to write this post tonight. Though let me step back a bit first. 

A month or so ago my little girl (she’s in her mid twenties) decided that she was going to buy herself a motorcycle. Everyone asked if I was upset. I wasn’t. She’s a grown woman. It’s her decision to make. She got her motorcycle permit and tried for her license. She didn’t get it the first time so she decided to practice a bit more. 

One day, when she comes over to show it off, the bike won’t start. Battery was dead. On top of that as she was trying to start it, she hit the throttle and flooded it. After we charge the battery it starts and because she’s never had a vehicle old enough to flood, she immediately kills it trying to hit the throttle. So she fires it up again and this time she listens to me and lets it run. Everything seems to be going good. She rides home and I go back to work.

The next day it does it again only this time she is at work. Luckily she works in an auto garage and someone there can give the bike a jump. At this point she starts thinking she needs a battery. It’s a thirty year old bike and who knows how old the battery is, so I help her change it. 

Yesterday, two days after changing the battery, it does it again. As she is complaining about the new battery, I mention that the dead battery is probably just a symptom of something else. She’s young and still knows everything so she placates me with a yes. She’s near a friend’s house so she pushes it over there and decides she is going to try to ride it home today.

Today, she get’s a couple miles down the road when it dies again and she calls me for a jump. Now, by this time we both know that a jump is only a half-measure so she can try to limp it home. By the time I get there, she’s found out it’s not even going to limp. It won’t stay running long enough to even get into gear, much less go down the road. Luckily about this time, a nice (strong) guy on his own bike stops by. Together we devise a plan to get her bike in the back of the truck. 

I have a tall truck, unfortunately. But luckily, there is a park and a business with a large lawn on the side of the road. And even luckier, there is a walkway with a slight hill between the road and the park. So I drive the truck into the lawn so that my tailgate is even with the top of the berm. The nice strong guy and I push the bike into the back. I tie it down as best I can and drive slowly down the side roads to get home. 

Once home though, I realize I have no strong guy to help me get it out of the truck. Just my wife and daughter. Luckily my driveway is on a hill and the neighbors here are nice. We put a few pallets behind the truck and stair step it onto the driveway. Now I have a broken down motorcycle to sit next to the broken down jeep she is storing in my garage. And after man handling a 450 pound motorcycle for a few hours, I’m too tired to write a post that is in-depth and well researched. Instead, I’m just going to grab a whiskey and relax for a moment. 

And what whiskey will I relax with tonight? Recently I bought a bottle of High West Rendezvous Rye that had been finished in used Bourbon Barrels for an additional 1.9 years. This is a tasty rye that according to their website is made up of a six year old MGP rye and a 16 year old Barton Rye. This is normally a very tasty rye. The additional couple years in the bourbon barrel add a bit of sweetness to round it out. 

Neat this is a tasty rye, but recently I tried something else with it. I had an ounce left of Very Old Barton 86 proof. I got to thinking that I might try a blend with it so I had a full pour. I added three-quarters of an ounce of this rye and then a quarter ounce of Mellow Corn. It’s a real Franken-Whiskey. But you know what? It was really good. The rye shone through as the star with the bourbon and the corn whiskey adding a touch of sweetness and a nice mouthfeel. that is an experiment to revisit someday, but not tonight. Tonight it will be my favorite cocktail. 

Whiskey in a glass.

High West Rendezvous Rye, finished in used bourbon barrels

Purchase info: $59.99 for a 750 bottle, Ace Spirits, Hopkins, MN

Details: 52.4% ABV Barrel # 2065. Bottle # 24. Store selection by Ace Spirits. Finished in used bourbon barrels for an additional 1.9 years.

Nose: Pumpernickel rye bread, mint, allspice and nutmeg.

Mouth: Hot and spicy with sweet caramel, vanilla, mint, oak and baking spices. 

Finish: Long and sweet with mint that fades to reveal more baking spices underneath.

a smile because I like this one.

Thoughts: This is a delicious rye. The blend of old and younger ryes lend spiciness and depth while the finishing adds sweetness. This is fantastic and I can highly recommend giving it (or another like it) a try.


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1792 Port Finish as Compared to a 1792 Single Barrel pick

So last night I was chatting with my friend Fred Minnick on twitter. He'd posted a shot of the bottle he'd got of Booker's Rye and I made my thoughts on the price known. He countered from a reviewers stand point and I replied with:

Yes, I was joking. I was mostly feeling salty about the fact I will never taste Booker's Rye due to both my self-imposed restriction on accepting review samples and the fact that the price is about three months worth of my (mostly poorly-followed) whiskey budget. 

I have to clarify that I was joking because I review things that few people will ever taste all the time: dusties, local retailer picks, special editions I make special trips to obtain, etc. I'd hate to be viewed as a hypocrite because someone only saw the one tweet as it was retweeted. I mean, my last post was a product that though easy enough to find right now, is out of the budget of the majority of my readers.

So to celebrate my newfound hypocrite-ness I'm going to review not one, but two things that are either limited editions or retailer picks that have been long sold out. I found the Port Finish 1792 at a local municipal liquor store and as I did my review tasting I thought to see how it compares to the regular release. I didn't have that, but I did have a bottle of a store pick single barrel. It shares at least a passing resemblance to the regular release so it would have to do.

1792 Single Barrel Pick - Ace Spirits

Purchase info: $19.98 for a 750 mL bottle at Ace Spirits, Hopkins, MN

Details: 46.85 ABV. Exclusive barrel for Ace Spirits. Barrel no. 11.

Nose: Dry and oaky with hints of chocolate and sweet fruit.

Mouth: Warm and woody with notes of ginger, nutmeg and dark chocolate.

Finish: Warm and drying with medium length. Lingering dark chocolate and spice notes. 

A smile becauseI like this. 

Thoughts: This is a bourbon I reach for when I don't want a "sweet" bourbon. It's spicy and warm and has a lovely dry "evaporating" sensation to the finish. This single barrel is tasty, but doesn't stray too far outside the 1792 wheel house. 

1792 Port Finish

Purchase info: $38.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Apple Valley Liquor, Apple Valley, MN

Details: 44.45% ABV. After normal aging, this whiskey spends an additional two years in barrels that previously aged port.

Nose: Rich and creamy with a nice port influence of fruit and honey along with oak and hints of chocolate.

Mouth: Warm and sweet with noted of ginger, sweet fruit, oak and hints of rich dark chocolate. 

Finish: Warm and sweet with lingering fruit and spices. 

A smile because I like this.

Thoughts: The combination of spice, fruit, oak and chocolate meld into a delicious whole. If you can find this and like fruity bourbons, this is one to pick up. It's quite different from regular 1792, but quite taste nonetheless. 


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Knob Creek 2001 Limited Edition - Batch 2

Last week I got an email newsletter from a local retailer letting us know that they had received their shipment of Knob Creek 2001 and were selling it for roughly $165. I shook my head pretty well satisfied that I wouldn’t be trying for this one since it was so far above my personal price ceiling. 

Thursday or Friday of last week I was reading reviews of Knob Creek 2001 (yeah honestly I don’t know why either) when I noticed that the writer was saying that Beam was hoping to have things price out around $130. Well now. That is inside my personal price ceiling. If I could find it for that price, I’d be willing to pick it up.

Friday night I entered my local corner liquor store for beer to go with the pizza I was making and sure enough right there inside the front door was a bottle. I looked at the price. $145 and some change. Outside the ceiling, but not nearly as far. $10 being easier to justify than $30. Knowing that it was likely this store would still have some the next day (they still have Woodford Limited Releases back from when they were actually good) I decided to wait. Maybe it would be sold and fate would have made my decision for me.

I struggle with things like this for a few reasons. First, I’m a self-employed artist/designer and $145 is a lot of money. Add in the 10% sales tax I pay on hard liquor and your looking at closer to $160. Secondly, the price ceiling is there for a reason. Before I implemented it, I tended to get a bit of buyers remorse when I bought an expensive bottle that didn’t seem to live up to the price that was being charged.

As I’ve gotten over the sticker shock of paying $50 or $80 or $100 or $120 for a single bottle of bourbon, the price ceiling has gone up over time. It's now $135. I’m sure that it will do go up again in the future. That doesn’t mean I’m eager to rush it though.

Saturday while I was shopping I ran across bottles all over the place. All priced higher. I talked it over with my wife and we decided to go ahead and buy it at our local store.

Knob Creek 2001 Limited Edition - Batch 2

Purchase info: $145.97 for a 750 mL bottle at Viking Liquor Barrel, Prior Lake, MN

Details: 50% ABV. Batch 2. Bottle #4052

Nose: Oak, cinnamon gum, and a hint of fruit.

Mouth: Warm and sweet with caramel, cinnamon and cloves, a bit of fruit and oak.

Finish: The flavors continue into a nice long, warm finish.

Thoughts: This is a good bourbon. Very very good. It is oaky without being too oaky. It has a nice fruity sweetness that I don’t normally find in Knob Creek which helps to balance the oak and heat I normally do find there. If price is no object or you are a Knob Creek fanboy (or girl), you should certainly pick this up. 

If however, you are like me and don’t usually spend almost $150 for a single bottle of bourbon or if you don’t normally love Knob Creek, maybe think about how much you actually want this one before taking the plunge. When I break my personal price ceiling, it is with the expectation that what I am buying is the best thing that a producer is putting out. This didn’t live up to that expectation. And while this is certainly the best Knob Creek I’ve had, it isn’t the best Beam product released in the last few years. Booker’s 25th was better, it was cheaper and it was higher proof. At $90-110, this would be an easy recommend. At almost $150? I wouldn’t buy it again and probably wouldn’t have the first time if I knew what I know now. So yes, I like this, I just don't like the price.

Oh, hi buyers remorse…thought I’d figured out a way to not see you again…


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Mellow Corn Bottled in Bond

The bottle of Mellow Corn Bottled in Bond I bought after tasting the sample my friend gave me. 

There are seldom times when I am so pleasantly surprised by a whiskey as I was by the one I’m reviewing tonight. No matter how many times I read that people (even people I trusted) were recommending Mellow Corn, I just couldn’t bring myself to buy it. In fact, this would probably have never been reviewed if I hadn’t received a big sample from a friend of mine. 

I thought he was giving it to me because he was trying to get rid of it and I accepted it because…free whiskey. Over and over I’d have a thought about things I could do with it. But each time I was almost ready to crack the sample the little thought of “you know you’re going to have to put that in your mouth, right?” would start up and I’d put it back on the shelf. 

Finally, I’d had enough of that little voice. I decided to just plow ahead and review it. I figured in the worst case, I always need something to warn people away from. And who knows, in the best case, I might actually like it as much as others seem to.

I’ve had a lot of corn whiskey. Most of it had no age on it. Most of them I hated. And even those I liked, I don’t find myself going back to that often. So the fact that this was aged for four years and was Bottled in Bond was a factor in it’s favor. According to Chuck Cowdery it was four years in used barrels, but still four years is nothing to sneeze at. 

When I sat down to review this, the first thing I did was nose it. And…the nose was really nice! Hmmm…

Mellow Corn Bottled in Bond

Purchase Info: MGM Wine & Spirits, Burnsville, MN. $12.99 for a 1L bottle

Details: 50% ABV. Distilled at DSP-KY-354. Bottled at DSP-KY-31. 

Nose: Sweet and fruity with notes of caramel, vanilla and green apple. 

Mouth: Hot and sweet. Vanilla, mint, and almond notes are readily apparent.

Finish: Warm and sweet with decent length.

A smile because I like this.

Thoughts: This is not a complicated whiskey. But if you are looking for something warm and sweet to sip on while playing cards or chatting with friends, this is one to check out. I was very pleasantly surprised with this one. 


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Hochstadter's Vatted Straight Rye Whiskey

It was with no little amount of sadness that I learned that Robert J Cooper had passed away. It’s not like I knew him or even knew who he was. Though I probably should have since he was the creator of such spirits brands as St. Germain, Lock Stock & Barrel Rye, and Hochstadter's Low & Slow Rock and Rye. 

No I was sad for an entirely selfish reason. As I learned of his death, I also learned of his age, which happens to be the same as mine. 39 years old. That’s really young and any time you hear of someone your age dying, doesn’t matter how, you start to look at your own mortality. To question if you are where you want to be in life or if there is something else that you should be doing. To examine how you are going to get there. 

In the past when I’ve done this evaluation whether it was from the death of a friend or a stranger, I’ve found my life wanting. I was in a soul-sucking job or working without passion. This time however, I’m happy to say that I find I’m in a good place. Business is good, I’m happy with the work I’m doing as a designer and I have people who are interested in what I have to say as a writer. 

So here’s to Robert J. Cooper, a man I never even heard of, that has helped in some small way to remind me that life is pretty good.

Hochstadter's Vatted Straight Rye Whiskey

Purchase Info: Apple Valley Liquors, Apple Valley, MN $35.99 for a 750 mL

Details: 50% ABV. On bottle there is no age statement so assumed 4 years old. The website backs that up claiming it is “A complex blend of hand-selected straight rye whiskeys, aged 4-15 years and curated from distilleries across North America. Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Alberta.” The site also mentions that the whiskey is non-chill filtered.

Nose: Caramel, cloves and cedar.

Mouth: Soft in the mouth with cloves, cinnamon, mint and brown sugar. 

Finish: Starts hot and slowly fades to sweet with just a hint of pickle and bubble gum.

A heart because I love this.

Thoughts: I’m a big fan of the theory of this one. Take rye’s from all over, from many different distilleries in many different places and just blend them together to get something new. Very cool idea. It is also a very tasty whiskey and has become one of my favorite ryes in the two months I’ve had it in my house. Who knows what will happen to the brand now that the founder is gone, but for now, I’ll keep buying it as long as I can keep finding it.


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My Wandering Eye: Chateau De Laubade VSOP

Tomorrow I am going to visit family in Wisconsin. And as such it is only fitting that I explore my father’s favorite drink. Yep, my eye is wandering again and once again I’m down the brandy aisle. 

Last year, I gave my father Chateau De Laubade VSOP Armagnac for Christmas. As I’ve stated before, he likes his brandy, but usually buys regular release Korbel. Because until recently, I’d yet to explore brandy most of the time he got presents that I had never tasted. And though he shares, it’s usually a pull from the bottle or an 80 proof drowned in ice. So I decided to give it a try. Chateau De Laubade is a Total Wine exclusive. As such, this one was available in a 200 mL bottle so I didn’t have to lay down too much cash to try it. In this case, it was $12 or so.  

Chateau De Laubade VSOP

Purchase Info: $11.99 for a 200 mL bottle at Total Wine, Burnsville, MN

Details: 40% ABV

Nose: Floral with plump raisins, baked apple and sweet caramel.

Mouth: Trending toward dry with a full mouthfeel.

Finish: A long but delicate finish with caramel, raisins, spice and floral notes.

A smile because I like this.

Thoughts: This has a lovely nose and finish. I’d say most of the flavor hits you during the finish. During my initial tasting, I used a Glencairn as I normally do for these reviews and wasn’t impressed. Because when I’m not doing a tasting, I normally drink using different types of glassware, I tried this again using a small snifter style glass. It is amazing what a difference it made. I picked up much more on the nose and mouth and enjoyed it much more. At $40 for a 750, this isn’t a bargain, but it is easily as good as many of the bourbons that have recently entered it’s price point.


My wandering eye is a series reacting to the crazy rising prices in the bourbon world. We’ve reached a place where even average products have hit the range where they compete price-wise with other types of aged spirits. If I’m going be asked to drop $40 to $70 on a mediocre bourbon, I might as well see what else I can get for that money. See if another spirits category offers something that is downright tasty in that price range. The goal isn’t to find cheap spirits, but to maximize the quality I’m getting at a particular price point.


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Rowan's Creek Bourbon

It’s been a few years (or more) since I last bought a bottle of Rowan’s Creek bourbon. I’d been a fan of bourbon for some time but I really didn’t have the most refined palate. I was just starting my expansion from enjoyer of bourbon to someone who thinks critically about what he’s drinking. I’d gone from just having Maker’s or Wild Turkey in the liquor cabinet to exploring enough to have an entire shelf in my office dedicated to bourbon. Can you believe I had an entire 12 bourbons on my shelf…(eye roll).

At the time, I wasn’t impressed. I found it weird, not like the other bourbons that I was enjoying. It wasn’t a caramel bomb that tasted like a hot piece of candy. And so, I never bought another. Recently I was inspired by my decision to make a trip through the Willett line-up to give it another go.

Rowan’s Creek

Purchase info: $35.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Viking Liquor Barrel, Prior Lake, MN

Details: 50.05% ABV, Batch QBC No.: 16-30. DSP-KY-78. Part of Willett’s Small Batch Boutique Bourbon Collection.

Nose: Grain forward with cloves, spearmint and a light fruitiness

Mouth: Sweet and not as hot as I’d have expected for over 100° proof. It’s lightly flavored showing cereal, mint and vanilla.

Finish: Decent length with cereal, spice, caramel and mint.

A smile since I like this.

Thoughts: This is a well constructed whiskey that is outside my normally preferred flavor profile. So I can see why I didn’t care for it back when I was starting my bourbon journey. I didn’t have a palate that was experienced enough to realize that different can be good. And though I don’t normally like grain-forward bourbons, this one has grown on me. And I am liking it more as I progress though the bottle. I’d recommend this to people who like bourbons that show more influence from the grain than the barrel and hold it up as an example of how such a bourbon can be a little more refined and show more than just hot and corn.


BourbonGuy.com accepts no advertising. It is solely supported by the sale of the hand-made products I sell at the BourbonGuy Gifts Etsy store. If you'd like to support BourbonGuy.com, visit BourbonGuyGifts.com. Thanks!